Q&A With Beth Gladstone - Social Media State Of Play Masterclass
Beth and I have known each other for many years, we connected after I spoke at a conference in the early 2010’s, to appearing on her podcast in 2019 and it was great collaborating on a project in recent years.
Beth is one of those people who is brilliant and understands SEO strategy and social media like very few others. I wanted to have a quick-fire interview with Beth as I greatly respect her and also to shine a light on her masterclasses and how to think about the future of Social Media.
Q1/ Social media is evolving and the channels we love are changing quicker than ever, from Instagram to TikTok, what are the most important changes for in-house marketers to know and leverage?
Absolutely, social media looks very different now to even what it was a year ago. As an in-house marketer I’d be thinking of not just a channel strategy, but also a sub-channel strategy for example how are you using reels vs explore vs stories within Instagram, or your YouTube channel videos and playlists vs Shorts. Secondly, marketers need to think about what Adam Mosseri (Head of Product at Instagram) describes as “connected vs unconnected” reach, which basically means creating content for those who already know you and buy from you vs those who are coming across your brand for the first time. Which is something we naturally do for our website or email campaigns, but that’s new for social media.
Q2/ You are running a brilliant masterclass at the end of September on the state of play, what are some of the most important reasons why social media managers and marketing leaders should take the masterclass?
As marketers it can be really tempting to begin social media creation by asking “what do we want to share?” This often leads to brand messages the company is happy with, but that don’t inspire sharing or engagement. To be truly effective on social media today I believe we need to ask: who is my audience, what matters to them and how can I create that in a way that the channels will want to share? The masterclass is a deep-dive into how to do those two things based on where the algorithms on channels such as Instagram, TikTok and YouTube are today.
Q3/ User behaviour is changing on each channel, Instagram is slowly becoming more private for consumers and then shifting brands to broadcast running channels, whereas TikTok wants to own QVC-style sales and be the live streaming platform, do you have any thoughts on where these shifts in user behaviour might be taking brands and creators?
TikTok Shop is extremely lucrative for those who are adopting it early, but like all social media strategies, the benefit of early adoption is likely to fade over time. We also have to remember that what’s best for the channels (in Instagram’s case, very short-form video under 9 seconds, shared person-to-person) usually isn’t best for brands or creators. Which is why I’d also be looking outside of short-term tactics on these channels, to longer-term strategies on more evergreen channels like YouTube, or even decentralised platforms such as Threads or Mastodon.
Q4/ You have a unique knack (many don’t) in clearly explaining big shifts on social media platforms (via your Instagram stories and main feed), what should brands do next when reacting to the recent big shifts? Can you share 3-5 recommendations for adapting their social media plans to drive success in Q4?
For the upcoming quarters, I’d be thinking about:
Experimenting with how to “package” your content on social i.e. video vs text-on-screen vs carousel statics to see what’s most effective
Repurposing previous content that performed well, with something as simple as a different audio track or different type of packaging (something I see the biggest creators doing often)
Using keyword research on social media channels to find what phrases and entries users are searching and then using this to create content that answers those queries - social SEO is only going to become more important as users begin their discovery with a search
Connect With Beth
LinkedIn → https://www.linkedin.com/in/beth-gladstone
Website → https://www.builtbycontent.com/
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/bethbycontent/?hl=en
Unofficial Mentor Newsletter → https://theunofficialmentor.substack.com/
If you would like to see Beth on my previous podcast on the future state of content together listen below ↓
Read the other quick-fire Q&A
With Paddy Moogan highlighting the issues with management roles and promotions agency side and how to improve your management skills
With Carl Hendy highlighting why SEO has to tie back to business goals and lead revenue conversations
The Truth Behind Huge Celebrity Podcast Deals
Podcasts are what I call a 1-1-98 platform — 1% make good money, 1% make great money, and 98% don’t.
Podcasts are incredibly hard to:
Build an audience (listenership is hard to build and harder to keep listening)
And keep that audience engaged - it’s a huge time commitment
Find guests
Organise and edit
Make money from
Finding sponsors
Find partners who are willing to be placed against content they can’t control
These are just a few reasons why podcasts have been flooded with celebrities and influencers creating podcasts and joining ad and media networks. They have the audience already built in (the superfans will go anywhere they go), they have a phone book full of friends for guests, they have an inbuilt team creating, editing and helping with distribution and ad deals are factored in upfront.
So let’s dive deeper into these major deals and why brands compete on huge deals for “podcasts”.
The Mega Deals
There have been 4 huge deals worth over $100m this year for popular podcasts:
This week; The Kelce brothers (NFL players) have signed a 3-year $100m deal with Wondery (part of Amazon).
Last month; Call Her Daddy co-creator Alex Cooper signed a new 3-year deal worth $125 million with SiriusXM (for her podcast and her new network of podcasts) leaving Spotify.
In February; Joe Rogan renewed his Spotify contract for another 4 years for $250 million.
In January; SmartLess (with Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, & Will Arnett) left Wondery for a 3-year deal worth $100 million with SiriusXM (Warren Buffet famously invested heavily earlier this summer in SiriusXM).
This is (US) Podtrac data from July with the podcast publishers and the size of their audience with downloads. Many have huge networks of shows that enable a bigger deeper ad offering.
Wondery which is part of Amazon signed The Kelce brothers podcast and joins their 625 roster of podcasts.
Above data and screenshot via Chartable - The majority of the top ranked podcasts are celebrity fronted and are on media or ad networks -- independents really struggle to rank and then monetise outside of the top 250 podcasts.
So What? Why Is This important?
Costs: There are now millions of podcasts but very few are independent and few make money if anything they lose money with the cost of tools and time
Fees First: Celebrity fronted Podcasts (in-built audience and superfans) have become incredibly popular, especially a-list podcasts, celebrity pods dominate the podcast rankings and hold typically huge bi-weekly audiences, so much so these podcasts charge 5 to high 6-digit rates for ads, some smartly charge huge figures to advertise on the back catalogue.
These stars have the option to go out and create a podcast with a team and a network behind them or go and join YouTube like Ronaldo and Tom Brady have in the last few weeks
Reach - Audience - Spread: The influence celebrity podcasts have is far-reaching, especially what is being shared and the stories being told (untold elsewhere), these are then flipped into news stories and create headline stories in mainstream media who struggle to build relationships with stars like they used to. Podcasters and their teams know this and play to this with deliberate clips that are seeded or “leaked” from their teams
Pay To Play: Many smart PR firms are pushing their clients to host and cohost and paying large sums of money to appear on tier 1 podcasts and vodcasts (video podcasts)
Deeper Connection - Owning The Narrative(s): Podcasts are the new way to build audiences, host & control debates and are being used to rebuild careers, recent examples include: the 2 hours of Candace Owens interviewing Andrew Tate, President Trump on Theo Von podcast was something else, Peter Thiel on Joe Rogan was painful to watch — all leading to huge listenership/views and driving huge awareness to brands sponsoring
Ranking Dominance: (Shown above) Big ad & media networks back the majority of the top 200 podcasts and have big talent fronting the pod - stars come with an existing audience and advertisers will invest massively into these pods
Sponsors demand ad reads by the hosts and are charged a premium for doing so as it feels less like an ad and more like an endorsement
Product Placement Becomes Product Play: Some are now negotiating with hosts and guests to show, drink/eat the products and discuss within the podcast
Big Bucks: Acquired a popular long-form podcast on how companies were built and the strategy behind them charges $500k for 4-episode midroll sponsorship or $750k for presenting sponsor
Ads! This is why SiriusXM, Spotify and Amazon are investing millions in 3-year+ deals on these podcast advertising deals and actively negotiating against each other for these huge podcasts
New Ad Networks: Tech giants like Amazon & Spotify and Podcast networks are moving away from exclusive shows only on their platforms and moving towards owning the ads inside the pods (and connected to the pods) and inserting ads across the feeds onto Apple, Spotify and YouTube.
Ads = Paid Brand Moments Brands are looking for the best possible advertising options, whether that is brand-side to find a new audience or creators looking for ad partners to monetise their latest moves.
Brands are looking for reach, celebrities have reach & superfans are willing to support, ad networks can insert more ads (ad load aka the number of ads is up and increasing)
Existing sponsors of the athletes or celebrities will feature and become marketing moments for these brands
The Vodcast Evolution: The recent move to video-first podcasts allows their audiences to select the platform they prefer, however, importantly enabling different ad offerings from audio (podcasts) to video (vodcasts) and video can earn from views via AdSense.
The vodcast format lends itself to celebrities and influencers, seeing the celebrity (or hate watching which is common) and will lead to more ad slots inside
Over the last six months: Joe Rogan has published 1,998 videos (with his move back to YouTube he has uploaded old content onto YouTube from Spotify), with 400k subscribers racking up 1,857,540,158 views (via VidIQ). Joe Rogan has a total of 17.2M subscribers and a back catalogue of 3.2K videos.
The TLDR
Like all other platforms and channels - Brands will open up their budgets for popular podcasts and be associated with their huge reach.
Celebrities love the new format as do their PR firms and the ad-exclusive deals are huge and will continue to be while celebrity podcasters attract their celeb friends and major names to tell stories while brands can piggyback from an ad inserted into it
Media will continue to write about their pods, and their appearances and drive listeners and viewers
Fans will give them a listen and superfans will love, promote and even pay a subscription if there are PPV podcasts
Expect video to become a key part of the celebrity podcast industry and be able to charge an additional premium to be a sponsor or featured within the vodcast and then ads being inserted in to the back catalogue
FYI A more condensed version of this article was a dedicated segment from the August drop of my Must Reads newsletter.
My Podcast Recommendations For Marketing & Growth Leaders
Here are my most recommended podcasts for Marketing leaders, as you will see the majority aren’t marketing-specific podcasts, they are importantly more business-related, with that said they will help with honing your skills and improve how you communicate to business leaders and consider how you approach Marketing and pitching across the business.
Decoder
Good for company breakdowns, deep questions and CEO profiles
Rapid Response
Good for business responses and how they’ve reacted
Work Life
Good for exploring interesting topics and deeper conversation
Marketing Against The Grain
Good for marketing chatter. I am not always a big fan of all of their recommendations (as for very specific types of early-stage companies) but good for food for thought and opportunities to see if the ideas would fit for your business
Business Untitled
Good for understanding the people behind the business and great for ideas
Definitely check out the genius behind MSCHF and the art of going viral podcast
Masters Of Scale
Good breaking down companies or themes and considering how to apply to your own situation.
Land Of The Giants
Good for the inside look of companies and breaking down business and business leaders.
Marketing Freaks
Good for getting under the skin of the companies, the how and why behind campaigns and channels. As a past guest I can tell you how much effort they put into sourcing their guests and setting up their vodcast and podcasts.
Here is my cheatsheet from my appearance on Marketing Freaks
Or watch the short version ↓
The Uncensored CMO
Good for understanding the varying worlds of CMOs, their day to day and their journey to the leadership team
Discover Daily
If you are a brand lead and want to understand how you can create a highly-produced daily podcast Perplexity is a great example of how to do it and bring the brand to the front of the project.
The Disney Dilemma Podcast - Land of the Giants
Its rare that I recommend more than one business podcast from one podcaster or network, with many being hit and miss or often they turn into case studies repackaged.
However, Land Of The Giants is one of the series of podcasts that is always worth listening to.
If you are a leader of a business, into the ops sides of companies or enjoy listening to how businesses have to balance cycles of hardship The Disney Dilemma is a brilliant listen.
It highlights why generational brands are important to us, passed down from parents and grandparents, recommended by our friends and why our kids and future generations love and will continue to love Disney. But behind the scenes it’s never easy, especially for the brand managers and highlighting why do the internal business leads have to tread so carefully and nurture the brand and not overly police it in today’s world.
I also highly recommend Ride of a lifetime by Bob Iger as a must read/listen for business leads.
Enjoy!
If you enjoyed this article, enjoy the following ↓
The Importance Of Audio In Your Marketing Mix
MSCHF CEO On How To Go Viral Podcast
My 6 Must Watch And Listens From The Last Week
Here are six incredible listens and watches to help you understand how decisions are made in large business and with elite professionals.
>> Etsy Scale & Ensuring Human+ (So human have to be behind AI product creations Creativity.
My main takeaway is being deliberate in your choices and ensuring you can build your marketplace with long term thinking in mind and adapt to tech changes.
>> Masters Of Scale - Kat Cole’s approach to leadership and why she joined AG1.
My main takeaway is Kat is very personable and extremely thoughtful and driven, if you want to be leading from the front you have to get deep under the skin and understand the true operating model.
>> YouTube creator sensation Cleo Abram on what made Nike almost ban record-breaking sneakers (hint there’s a flow chart and must be on general sale to be included in the Olympics
My main takeaway is tech is always going to help improve times of athletes but unless they are the elite level athletes its likely not going to win too many races and Olympic and governing bodies will review tech and innovation quickly (for safety and fair use).
>> Rory Sutherland delivers one of his best talks about making time to rethink the question and apply behaviour sciences to make better decisions .
My main takeaway is thinking about the question and what humans want will place us in front of creating better solutions, it’s then a choice (as I said in brand is in 2024/2025) not just optimising to the financial leader’s spreadsheet.
>> How 7-Eleven is repositioned itself and building a better shopping experience
My main takeaway is many can learn from building an experience from international stores and building more relevant shopping experiences.
>> Acquired’s long form interview with Howard Schultz on Starbucks history, strategic moves & why being wrong made Starbucks right
My main takeaway is even when you are a listed company with millions in sales even larger brands will treat you badly (Coca Cola in this instance) and their competitors will leap at the chance to collaborate. I have experienced this a number of times and it rarely ends badly…
One More Question Podcast
This is my One More Question Podcast appearance, Ross and I broke down the modern-day Marketing world, what the business impact of Marketing is really and how the creator space is leading the way for brands to improve their products and the connection with their customers.
So Why Listen?
Why being a brand and standing out is an active business decision
Why Performance Marketing vs Brand Marketing isn’t versus it is and always has to be and - if it’s not you are building a brand ready to disappear
Grasp the importance of your utility level as a company and develop this out within your messaging and growth action plan
Understand that the delivery company you choose to deliver your customer orders is a reflection on your company and your brand, your first experience will be your last if your delivery is impacted
Why my coach+ product is popular and why coaching is critically important to Marketing and Growth team successes
Nostalgia is always going to be essential in Marketing but many overlook it or don’t see the power of the archive
Understand the power of generational brands
Why being a brand not a bland is critical in winning your customers
Learn why brands can go hyper-personalised to beat out competition (a handwritten thank you note will scale for you to win and stand out)
“Brand” is a tribe and tribal - it is critical to understand when to build a tribe or ask customers to join your tribe
Be bold to win - that has to be a business decision
Why community brands could be the next big
Or listen on your podcast player of choice ↓
Netflix’s Culture & Cultural Importance
This Is Why The Podcast Format Is So Success & Why CEOs Will Want To Actively Seek Out Appearing On Episodes That Challenge Them
Anyone that knows me I love podcasts, I love pods on culture and when big company executives are more open about what is happening inside of the company. I highly recommend you listen to this podcast if you are a company exec or looking to take the next step up to the c-suite and how to handle questions (away from traditional media training).
Why Listen?
Greg Peters speaks on how they are thinking about their past to drive their future
How Co-CEOs can work together successfully and how Greg & Ted Sarandos make it work
How Netflix thinks about attention and being your canonical choice of media
The way he discusses their struggling gaming offering is brilliant listening
Why the culture has shifted and now a sports team analogy is most relevant
How ads are playing an essential part for Netflix’s long-term successes
Who their competitors are now (and their slow copying of features)
& The direction they are taking
If you enjoyed this post, you will enjoy my recent post the power of audio and the attention needed for each format